Skip to main content

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 11, 2009 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

I hear ya Noise, but you only have half the equation.

Energy Return On Investment (EROI) is the linch pin here. You need 1.3 bbls worth of energy to extract 1 bbl of shale oil. That is a negative production rate and is unsustainable.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Edsel Date: Aug 11, 2009 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

"You need 1.3 bbls worth of energy to extract 1 bbl of shale oil"

For the sake of discussion, I will assume your numbers are accurate, but they are today's numbers, and are likely to change over time..... I would hope the ratio falls in the future, and the process becomes feasable.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 11, 2009 1:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Unfortunately Edsel, the ratio won't likely fall ever. The denominator is getting smaller faster than the numerator. Energy Return is the only way to look at it accurately. Pro-drillers conveniently exclude the energy cost to extract the kajillion bbls of dead fat dinosaurs and trees when they are shopping their numbers around.

The simple fact is we are consuming a finite resource unabatedly. Eventually that model breaks.

Start here: (But go back and watch the entire Crash Course)

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-17a-peak-oil

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: NoiseCollector Date: Aug 11, 2009 5:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Reading this now actually. Thanks.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 11, 2009 5:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Noise -

As you might guess, I have become a bit passionate about Crash Course. Let me know what you think, but let's take it off the forum.

mandojamr@yahoo.com

Anytime. I'm really interested in what you think about Chris' work.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 11, 2009 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Mando-

Just FYI I had the pleasure of interviewing Chris a couple years ago...incredibly smart guy & explains a complicated issue in as straightforward a manner as possible. Glad to hear you're into his work!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 12, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Grendel -

How cool. I always enjoy the small world connections. Chris and Becca are amazing people, as are their kids. Back in April my wife organized a Crash Course seminar out in SW Virginia in the Shenandoah Mountains. We had 63 people show up to learn from Chris and Becca. Great stuff.

If you interviewed him a couple a years back, you may not have seen the complete version of the Crash Course. I would encourage you to check it out.

Any chance you could provide a copy of the interview - I'd really be interested to hear what he was saying back then. I've only been onboard the Martenson train for a year now.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 12, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

I'll do my best to track it down for you...it was something I did freelance for Christian Science Monitor and have no idea if it's archived anywhere. (btw, i'm not a Christian Scientist...I always have to point that out when i mention I did some work for them; their international news coverage is second to none)....Will also check on the latest research...The whole oil/shale oil question is a really interesting one, but what is so important to remember is that--as you and Chris pointed out--it always takes energy to extract energy...or, as I think he reminded me at the time: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Sometimes the simplest laws of physics are the ones we tend to forget.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skies Date: Aug 12, 2009 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Not a convincing argument .You can walk forever and never get anywhere with it ,that's about the only opposite you get ,except when and if IT comes to meet you and send you on elastics cosmic pransters rides,just for the fun or the heck of it . Reasonable wisdom has been on vacations for quite a long time here and it's about TIMES to gig on !

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: NoiseCollector Date: Aug 11, 2009 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

We could use nuclear power, which is greener than oil or coal. Use it to extract the oil, or use it to replace the oil. I just want me some oil.... I'll squeeze the rocks by hand... gimme some gottdam oil!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skies Date: Sep 5, 2009 2:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Noise Collector found oil to squeeze so too busy to talk back ?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skies Date: Aug 11, 2009 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Take a big Mamma 's advice,and invent something smarter than nuclear gigs if you want something left for the kiddies!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 11, 2009 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Sure coal ash is much better. That takes years to die from.

Just don't roll in or eat U238/U235 and you will be fine.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 11, 2009 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

lol :)


and you are right about the shale oil ratio. got a friend who is an engineer for a big oil firm in texas - he said dont hold your breath for the shale unless you want to be spending $10 a gallon for gas.


(i'll be back in a bit - gotta go snort some coal ash)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skies Date: Aug 12, 2009 2:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Oil "cvilisation" stinks on the street,and it hurts my breathing ,na !

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skies Date: Aug 11, 2009 1:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Historically,it is already known that the main problem on this planet is the incapacity of men to take accout what was is said to them.They'd sooner drop dead definitly back into the big Nothing/nowhere for ever rather than accept opinions others than their headtrips!!!As for the waters,oceans are plenty around,and there are some advanced know how to take the salt out ,without adding to the pollutions .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: NoiseCollector Date: Aug 11, 2009 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Desalinization is not advanced or in enough supply to use because of the concentrations of mercury that are building up in the sea water. (pulled this out of my ass truthfully)

Other than Israe, I do not know any country working on or implementing any substantial use or research in it. I do know there are plenty gallons of fresh water frozen at the poles, if only we could think of a way to heat the planet and melt it...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Aug 11, 2009 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: You wascily wabbits and your undrilled oil

Perhaps the 4 Horsemen of the Barackalypse will Nationalize the Nuclear industry as well and staff it with retired submariners?